Erik Castillo:
We were asking our students. When we have different workshops or things that are happening that are, quote-unquote, “not required”, the students made it clear. They said, “If you don’t make it a requirement, most likely students won’t show up.” And so Will put it best when he said, “Optional is not equitable.”

Alec Patton:
This is High Tech High Unboxed. I’m Alec Patton. And that was the voice of Erik Castillo, college advisor at High Tech High International. In this episode, Erik is interviewed by continuous improvement coach, Dr. Sofia Tannenhaus. And Sofia’s here with me at this moment to talk about why she wanted to talk to Erik. Welcome, Sofia.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Thanks, Alec. It’s so great to sit down and talk to you and to Erik about this exciting work.

Alec Patton:
It’s so awesome to have you here. Sofia, you and Erik both work on a project called CARPE. What is that?

Sofia Tannenhaus:
The CARPE Network is a five-year grant-funded network that actually ended in the spring of 2023. We are supporting 30 schools throughout Southern California. We had schools in Los Angeles, San Diego, and East as well, Calexico. And the essence of what we did was to support school teams in using continuous improvement to make college access more equitable.
And since then, we’re in the fall of 2023 now, we have launched the next iteration of our work through the CARPE Collaborative. And our aim is the same. It’s to increase the number of students for this from opportunity who apply, enroll, and ultimately go to colleges that they’re most likely to graduate from. We work on four key areas in this work, starting with financial access to make sure that students are getting the funding from government and grants and other sources to be able to attend college and make it affordable.
We also work on supporting students and families with the college application process. Obviously a lot of questions, concerns, and excitement come up through that process. So we work on supporting both the students and the families with all of that while also fostering a sense of belonging and helping ensure that students feel that they can be successful in college and that college is for them.
And another thing we do is work on reducing summer melt. This is a phenomenon in which students will say that they are going to go to a particular college the spring of their senior year, and then over the summer they might miss a deadline or just have a change of heart, maybe just personal things come up. So there’s a lot of reasons why students don’t end up actually matriculating to the college they intended to attend. And so we also work with school teams on providing supports for students over the summer.

Alec Patton:
That’s awesome. Why did you want to talk to Erik specifically?

Sofia Tannenhaus:
One of the goals of an improvement network is to learn from variation, and the CARPE Collaborative spotlights positive deviation which we call bright spot schools and ask those teams to share their approach and learnings with the rest of the network. And the reciprocal learning is one of the things that our network members have shared that they actually value most in our work. And a school that consistently emerged as a bright spot was High Tech High International, and I sat down with Erik to learn more about how they achieved such impressive results.

Alec Patton:
There’s a couple of words you use in this episode that might not be familiar to all of our listeners. Before we get into it, I wanted to get a couple definitions. First, you and Erik talk about segmentation. What is segmentation?

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Teams need a routine that supports the team in acting on their data and reflecting on what they’re learning, and this begins with segmentation. CARPE defines segmentation as identifying the priority group of students we need to support. And this always ends up being the students for this from opportunity. And as teams engage in this routine over time, they’re able to narrow the spotlight and focus on a smaller group of students. And when they focus on that smaller group, they provide more targeted interventions for those who need it most.
Often, I hear folks say, “Oh, well, they think of the low-hanging fruit.” This is actually flipping that idea and actually not going for the lower-hanging fruit because we believe that those students are probably going to be okay. They get support through other areas at the school. We actually want to support the students that might slip through the cracks. And we have found that teams who engage in the segmentation routine have seen the most improvement.

Alec Patton:
And next, what is a funnel chart?

Sofia Tannenhaus:
That is a great question. Funnel charts provide a bird’s eye view of a multi-step process. And the funnel chart that CARPE created illustrates the percentage of students successfully completing five critical steps in the college application process. It starts with A through G completion and it ultimately ends with students seamlessly enrolling in four-year college.

Alec Patton:
All right, I think our listeners know everything they need to know to appreciate this interview. Let’s play it.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Erik, it’s great to be sitting down with you. I have the honor of talking to you today about what you’ve been doing to get more students to enroll in college. And just a little bit of introduction for you. You are the college advisor at High Tech High International and you also were on the University of San Diego admissions team prior to joining the High Tech High International team. You also have been an external reader for UC San Diego and UCLA. And including your time here at High Tech High International, you have about 17 years of college admission experience working with first-time freshmen and transfer students. So it’s an honor to talk to you today.

Erik Castillo:
Thanks for having me.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Yeah. I want to start off by first understanding what made you want to become a college advisor.

Erik Castillo:
It really started in middle school when I was a peer counselor. I think that’s my first introduction to learning how to be an ear and just to listen and be there for someone. And so as that progressed, I went from peer counseling in high school. I was a peer counselor. And then when I got to San Diego State as an undergrad, I was a peer advisor.
And so I think the idea of counseling has always just been a part of me. It really struck me in high school when I saw one of the counselors, which is primarily dominated by white females, I saw a male Filipino counselor who looked like me. And Lee Romero was the counselor at the time. And I actually still keep in touch with them. But I think that moment just helped me, I think, just believe that this could be potentially a career for me. So yeah, and I think it would go back as far as middle school.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And what you’re saying about Lee is really, it is so important that the students can see themselves in the person or the people that are supporting them on their path. So I just really appreciate you also bringing that to light is the importance of relationships, representation, connection with students. And I think you do that so well here, at least from talking to students that you serve. So-

Erik Castillo:
Thank you.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
… I just really appreciate you for that. How did you end up at High Tech High International?

Erik Castillo:
This is my 10th year. Crazy how fast.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Congratulations. It’s a decade.

Erik Castillo:
Just to say that, I think, it’s a big accomplishment. So prior, I was at the University of San Diego. I was on the admissions team working mainly with incoming transfers and sometimes freshmen, but I was finishing my graduate program in school counseling. The counseling world is pretty tight-knit. And so a lot of my colleagues, I keep in touch with. One in particular, Chris White, who’s the director of college advising here at High Tech High Mesa, had shared the opportunity with me. And at the time, I was not actively looking. I really enjoyed my role as a admissions counselor.
But at the time, I think that the timing was right. I was just finishing my grad school program. I have a family. And so I think the idea of having a profession where I can, I spend time with family but also be on the “other side of the desk”, quote-unquote, I was really open to the opportunity. So when I interviewed for High Tech High, I knew right away this place was special. I walked through the doors and just from the artwork on the walls and just connecting with the teachers and meeting the students, I think their stories is what really got me intrigued with joining the team here. So yeah, 10 years ago and the stories continue.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Yeah, and so a decade. That is a long time and a lot of learning. So thinking back to when you started here, what are some of the things you wish you would’ve known?

Erik Castillo:
Becoming more knowledgeable about the variety of colleges and particularly the affordability. I think that was one thing that I’ve learned over the years is that schools that may, primarily private schools that may appear as being very expensive, can actually be a more affordable option for many families. And so if I could go back and change something, I wish I would’ve really known and understood that a lot better in terms of how scholarships are awarded and for families that have a particular amount of need, that can really become possible for families who may have never thought of college being affordable. But it is, and I see it more and more every day.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
You obviously have an incredible knowledge base at this point after doing it for 10 years, and I hear you saying things about when you first started and wishing you had all of this deeper knowledge that you have now, what are ways for folks newer to the profession to get that?

Erik Castillo:
It’s really important to get connected to associations like NACAC and WACAC where you’re connecting with colleagues who are continuously finding ways to improve. And so having that connection is really important. And again, the counseling community is really tight. So whether it’s through events, whether it’s through just speaking with colleagues, and I think just the learning just always continues. And yeah, I think it’s just getting connected.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Yeah, counselors don’t always have that opportunity because they get so busy with everything they have in the day-to-day.

Erik Castillo:
Absolutely.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And so it’s almost like you have to intentionally figure out, “Okay, how am I going to carve out time or talk to my administrator about getting some relief to go to those sorts of events?”

Erik Castillo:
Absolutely.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
You’ve been involved in the CARPE Network for the past five years, so half your time here at International. And there have been convenings and team lead sessions, coaching calls, the live case we had here. We’ve introduced everyone to improvement tools such as empathy interviews and interrelationship digraphs, PDSAs. We pretty much have a protocol for everything and we also instill in our network members how to have an improvement disposition. We’ve emphasized team huddles, segmenting, and looking at data. Out of all of these things, over the course of five years, what has stuck with you the most or been most helpful?

Erik Castillo:
I think it does go back to what we just discussed in terms of really carving out that time. As counselors, as educators, just taking the intentional time to step back and really see what’s working, what’s not working. I think that’s been one of the bright spots of being part of CARPE, is that we’ve intentionally made sure that our team, and our team includes our director, Jade White, Will Hayes who’s our math teacher, and a few other teachers throughout the years who’ve really embraced this process as a team to support our students to pursue college. And so yeah, those convenings, those bimonthly meetings that we’d have as a team are so important, even if it’s a quick 10-minute check-in, just making sure that for our students who needed specific meetings or just support, that we made sure that we met with those students.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And thank you for bringing up Jade and Will because you don’t do this alone and you get so much support and it’s really a team effort. And so something I’ve observed in the years of working with you all is that your team has consistently demonstrated curiosity, humility, a commitment to reflect and learn from your data, and super important, strong follow through on your action steps. Can you share more about how you work together? Because in some context, it isn’t the norm for a college advisor and a teacher and administrator to be coming together and meeting regularly. Can you share some insight into that dynamic and how you all work together?

Erik Castillo:
It really starts with Jade as a director to really support not only making sure that we have the time to have our convenings or our bimonthly meetings, but also I think just as a school, what structures do we need to have in place to make sure that we can really provide the resources and time for our students? So we’ve done a few really major changes. One of them is we switched to eight grade level advisory. I’ve been here for 10 years and we’ve talked about it, but I think once COVID hit, it was the perfect storm for us to try something new. And so without Jade’s leadership and really getting the rest of our staff on board with just trying something new and understand that it may not be perfect, I think really provides us, again, just the opportunity and just to try things new. And so we’ve seen definitely some increases with our teacher advisors checking in with students, making sure that those little things that fall through the cracks don’t happen as often.
And then with Will, Will, if you talk to any of our students or teachers, you’ll know that he’s very curious about data. And so when we have Will really looking at the numbers and sharing those numbers with our students, and numbers could be everything from the difference between going to a two-year school versus a four-year school, making sure that they understand what could be affordable options. Will really just, I think the students know that he cares a lot about them. And college is a piece of this wellness and having a life in the future that they’d be happy with. And I think having that relationship with Will, our students really trust him. And especially as part of this process, it’s been really important that we’re on the same page with all those things.
And so yeah, I’m very appreciative of our team dynamics, but I think that’s why we’ve seen these improvements is that we all play a different role.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Yeah. And in the article that also came out about your team, it ended with really talking about love and passion and commitment being at the heart of all of this for your team because yes, Will is a math teacher and he caress deeply about this work, and he’s willing to dedicate class time and even have a letter in the grade book for different things in the college process. So I just find that his innovation and commitment is very evident in not only what he does as a teacher, but even anytime you have a conversation with him, it’s like, “Wow, he is so passionate and caress so much about this.” And I just think that is so, so important, so I love him.
You’ve signaled some of the conditions that have contributed to your success. I heard time that Jade has given you all to leave and go to convenings or connect with other people in this profession. You have switched to grade level advisories. Also, the importance of just trying something new and learning from it, whether it works or not, it’s actually a good thing to know that something doesn’t work. Are there any other conditions that you can think of that have really contributed to your success?

Erik Castillo:
Just thinking back to where we’ve actually seen significant improvements, it went back to the empathy interviews and just getting the student voice. And so one in particular that resonates with why we’ve changed our advisory structure and also making sure we have more check-ins with students was when we were asking our students when we have different workshops or things that are happening that are, quote-unquote, “not required”, the students made it clear. They said, “If you don’t make it a requirement, most likely students won’t show up.” And so Will put it best when he said, “Optional is not equitable.” And so I think that really resonates with our work is that just being intentional that things that we offer provide support, we have to make sure that every student has access to that.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
A couple reactions I have to that are first, optional is not equitable, I know that has gained a lot of traction and has really resonated with people in the network. Because really when something’s optional, it perpetuates inequities that we’re trying to do something about. And naturally, some students will do the thing and others will not. And the other thing is the way in which you all listened to what students thought. And then actually, this is the important part, I think Jade and others used their positionality to actually do something from what they heard from students. So in this case, it was about the if it’s not graded. Was that what you were… If it’s not graded, we’re not going to do it.

Erik Castillo:
That’s one of the things, yeah. And we would even have workshops, whether it’s during lunch or after school, and just the attendance was not where we needed it to be. And the students that really needed to be there, particularly our first-gen underrepresented students, were the ones who were not showing up. But yeah, the other part is Will does have some assignments such as turning in your FSA ID or turning your FAFSA that do have grades attached to it, but that also, we’ve seen students have higher submission rates too.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And it’s amazing just what you can find out just by having a conversation with a student that you’re trying to support, like tier 2, tier 3. It’s like, “Hey, what’s going on?” And then you find out, “Oh, well, I have to go to my job or pick up a sibling.” And then it becomes evident, “Oh, we need to change this to accommodate different needs that students have.” So I just really appreciate how this team has really leaned into listening and learning from students and what they need and how to support them based on that. Going back to the continuous improvement question, in what ways has CARPE and the focus on continuous improvement influenced your practice over the past five years or so?

Erik Castillo:
Most importantly, it’s always looking back at the data. And because we’ve been in this for five years, I think looking back at the data and the different trends has been so important. I think if we only had one or two years of data, it may not be as helpful. And now I think we have a routine. We’re just finishing up our senior surveys and we’re now at a 95% completion rate. So I think it’s also part of the culture that our students know that we’re doing these check-ins through surveys and things like that. So just having that data leaves a lot of the ambiguity out that we used to just make decisions on just based on what we think was happening. We got to always go back to the data.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And thank you for bringing up the senior survey because a super important tool to learn from. Can you talk a little bit about how you use that information? And to give some context for this, the senior survey is administered after decision day each spring to seniors, and it asks an array of questions from where did you apply, where will you be attending college, and also about the supports they received throughout their senior year and beyond. And so it helps your team understand, “Okay, this is what we did well. This is where we could improve.” And then you also know your percentage of students applying to four-year colleges and then actually there are plans to enroll. Can you share more about how you use that data to inform next steps?

Erik Castillo:
Mm-hmm, yeah. A lot of it is really, so we were, a few years back, we were trying to really improve the predicted graduation rates. And we saw a big shift when we were informing our students of the low transfer rates from a two-year to a four-year. So that was one of the data points we’re looking at is what percentage is going into two-year, what percentage is going to a four-year? And like you mentioned, a lot of it’s based on how many students are actually applying, and from there, how many are actually matriculating to the four-year school.
We’ve been doing that over the past few years. I would say though, I was just looking at the data this morning and one thing that we were more intentional about this year is the affordability piece. Will has launched a finance project which is really thorough. It goes everything from potential careers, how much money you can make, how much loans you may have to pay back. And so I’m curious with this year, and I was just looking at some of the numbers, what percentage of our students are actually attending college and hopefully graduating from college with no college loans. So far, I see about 30% of our students are going into college with no college loans. I don’t know what that number is from last year, but another one that stood out is about 20% of them. So about half the class will actually go into college with less than $5,000 of loans.
So I think we’ve been very intentional this year with working with students and families, understanding what that financial aid package looks like. I can say this year, I’ve had the most meetings, one-on-one meetings with students and parents than I ever have in my last 10 years. So I’m curious to see what this trend would look like over the years.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
That is amazing. I cannot tell you the amount of times I’ve had students say, “Oh, I am going to go to this school.” This is a student that’s been accepted. And I’m like, “That’s amazing.” Then obviously you’re excited at first. And then just to make sure, I say, and this was when I was a teacher, “Are you aware of what it’s going to cost?” “No.”

Erik Castillo:
Right. And that’s scary.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
I’m just like, “Wait, hold on, hold on. Let’s open up your portal, find the information,” because they could be making a four to six plus year commitment and end up needing to pay quite a bit of money. And so these conversations you’re having, although very time-intensive, clearly with what you’re reporting on like how much they’re taking out in loans, that’s amazing because they can come out of their college career with not much. And then presumably a lot of them will go onto grad school too. But to end your undergrad without much in loans is huge. And I bet that’s a huge relief not only to the students but the parents.

Erik Castillo:
Yeah. I think it goes with maybe I could speak on behalf of our team is we understand that when they leave High Tech High, are we putting them in the best situation to be successful, however they want to define that? But we also know, especially because I’ve been here for 10 years, is that there are students who’ve had to either drop out or it’s taken them six, seven years to graduate college because of the money. They’re working part-time. I know a student right now, she’s working full-time and going to college just to make up for student loans that she used to attend out of state. And so I think, again, just that data is more of a holistic approach. It’s not just about getting into college but how are we helping them get through so that when they have their career, they can be in a position where they’re not in debt?

Sofia Tannenhaus:
What an intense five weeks from when they get their acceptances to when they commit to college. Because the time period is so short.

Erik Castillo:
Yep, small window.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Yeah, wow. Lots of coffee.

Erik Castillo:
Coffee. Yes, definitely a lot of coffee, a lot of meetings, but definitely worth it. The college app is a process. And so everything from being aware in ninth grade about Cal Grant all the way to those five weeks, I think we’ve really seen a shift in improvement, particularly not just attending a four-year but also saving money is what happens in those last five weeks.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And another thing I want to just pause and appreciate is Will is a math teacher and he integrates things on FAFSA, loans, and debt and other things into his area. So it’s just something that I want to acknowledge and appreciate is that I think typically, we see a lot of English teachers get involved, which is great. And call to all math teachers out there to also, they can also contribute to this process in very unique and helpful ways, I think.

Erik Castillo:
And I’ll say that even our alumni say that finance project was one of their favorite projects after leaving High Tech High.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
We produced funnel charts of the four-year college enrollment pipeline over the past two years. And the funnel chart has these five stages of the pipeline, and it starts with A through G completion, then goes on to apply to four-year college, acceptance to four-year college, plan to attend four-year college. And then of course after a student leaves the high school, that they have verified seamless four-year college enrollment.
And so these are the five stages, and we can see at each stage there’s a little bit of a drop-off. This happens everywhere. And so when we looked at the network data, High Tech High International emerged as particularly successful in sending students who are Black, Latino, indigenous, or low-income to colleges with high predicted graduation rates. High predicted graduation rates are when we say that, we refer to colleges where students have a higher likelihood of graduating within six years.
And so when we look at the pipeline for High Tech High International, it is extremely striking to see the progress that you have made on each level of the process. Just to name a couple of things that jump out to me, there has been a 14% growth in planning to attend a four-year college. So over the past two years, High Tech High International has experienced 14% increase in students planning to attend a four-year. And I would say even more impressive is a 24% jump in four-year college enrollment. This, it’s just, it’s so inspiring. And so I think the main thing I wanted to ask you today is how did you do it?

Erik Castillo:
Well, there’s a few things I think that jump out. So I think it starts with the early outreach with our 10th graders to inform them like, “Hey, regardless of what your plans are for students that may qualify for the Cal Grant,” which is students who typically have at least a 3.0 GPA and their family qualifies based on household income and how many people live in the house, their tuition could be covered at any of our UCs or CSUs. I think when our students have that just awareness, even as early as 10th grade, sometimes we encourage some of our students to get that GPA up from a 2.9 to a 3.0. And so by having that, it also opens up more opportunities for them to apply to more colleges.
But also, I would say a lot of that shift happens when Will goes over the differences between attending a two-year versus a four-year, and the likelihood of actually graduating with a bachelor’s degree significantly drops when students go straight to a two-year college right out of high school. And so I think one of the biggest fears students have is they won’t get into college. And some might think you have to have a 4.0. And when we sit down during our 11th grade junior meeting, and that’s when I get to know the student better, learn about their goals, passions, fears, concerns, and I really just get to understand who they are as a person.
We also go over based on their GPA, like what are the possibilities? And I could tell you, a lot of students, their eyes light up when I show them with based on say, 2.7 GPA, there are colleges in California that they can get admission to at a four-year school. And so I think that’s like that first just introduction of what’s possible. And so we do encourage our students to apply to at least four four-year colleges, especially when they qualify for fee waivers. And I think once they start seeing the possibilities and then they get that first acceptance, it’s like, “Wow.” I think the students start believing more in themselves and I think that’s what starts getting us to the point where students are now choosing the four-year versus a two-year.
Yeah, it’s definitely a process, but I think it’s just making sure students are aware of where the money’s coming from, how do you get it, and at the end of the day, how can they make it a reality?

Sofia Tannenhaus:
There’s so much there that I want to just highlight and celebrate. One is you mentioned informing students about the difference between two-year and four-year. I think often, we hear students say, “Oh, I’m just going to go to community college.” And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with community college if you have a plan going in. And one thing that Will does that I appreciate and you do as well is informing students, “Okay, regardless of where you go, let’s look at how the numbers play out if you go to two-year and the opportunity cost if you’re there longer and you’re not transferring.” So what I see happening here is really equipping students with knowledge, statistics, information, just so that they can be making these informed decisions, and a little bit of myth busting too.
Another thing you shared when you were talking about how you have ensured that jump in enrollment is, and you said these in passing but I think it’s so important and beautiful, understanding who students are as people. You mentioned that you do that was a junior year in the one-on-ones or sophomore year?

Erik Castillo:
My one-on-ones started in junior year.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
But I just really appreciate that because yes, humanizing the data and understanding the individual in front of you and what they are inspired to do in the world I think is really beautiful. And another thing you mentioned is having a conversation about what’s possible. I think those two things, like the combination of understanding what drives this individual and what makes them them and what their interests are and then helping them see what’s possible given where they’re at with their GPA and what their aspirations are, I just think those two things probably help students have a really positive college advising experience here.

Erik Castillo:
Yeah, that’s my hope. I start off all my meetings with students as, “What would you like to cover today?” Because I really want them to be the drivers of this process. And I tell them like, “Hey, either I’m sitting shotgun or I’m in the backseat, but you’re the one driving.” And I think when they take that ownership, it really provides a lot of possibilities. But also every student’s going through different things, and it’s not just about college but other things could be happening at home. Some students may have had a bad experience with teachers in the past. So just different… I tell students when I look at their transcript, it actually tells a story, but I’m trying to understand what that story is. And so that’s oftentimes what is covered during my one-on-one meetings is just learning what their story is and then just building off that.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
That is so beautiful because the whole college process can become so transactional, especially with large caseloads where you’re just like, “Okay, fill out this form. Get the tax documents. Which schools are you applying to?” And you look at everything as an opportunity to connect with the student and learn more about them.

Erik Castillo:
And it’s not always during our meetings. We’re a fairly small school. But just walking in the hallways, even walking past my office, sometimes I’ll grab it or just check in with the student, see what’s going on. But yeah, it is an individualized process.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Can you share more about little ways that you do that? Because just thinking two counselors who do have, I don’t know, 3, 400 students in their caseload, what advice do you have to them about how to make what can be a pretty transactional process, more transformative and intimate given the time constraints?

Erik Castillo:
It is challenging, especially at schools with larger caseloads. I’ve found that oftentimes when I’m walking around campus and I see a you in the hallway, I’ll just do a quick check in with them. Also, when we switch over to advisory by grade level, we do have check-ins. And I’ll ask our advisors to just put some notes in like, “Hey, what’s going on with this student?” And sometimes that’s enough for me to be able to identify which students might need more support. And so having different data points or during our team meetings with teachers, if they’re bringing up a student that’s going through something that’s happening that might be affecting their grades, then I’ll take the extra effort to check in with those students. So not every student always needs a consistent check-in, but like what you mentioned with the tier 2, tier 3 support, sometimes just knowing what a student is going through can help identify who needs more support.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Chris White, who you referenced earlier, calls some students frequent flyers. So these are the students that you’ll be in your office, your college advisor, college counselor, and you know that they’re going to come, ask you for help. And it’s great. They’re amazing and they know how to advocate and be resourceful. And then you have the students who definitely need support but aren’t necessarily coming to you, and you’re describing one way in which you work with the other adults on campus to get some extra context or information about students to know, “Okay, what’s going on and how can I better support them?” You referenced what I believe is a tracker. Can you share with folks what you mean by teachers will update things that are going on with the students so that you’re aware and you can better advise based on what’s happening at home or in their personal life?

Erik Castillo:
We use Google Sheets. We all have access to it, our advisors. I worked specifically with our senior advising team, and different checkpoints. One could be did they complete the FSA ID? Another one could be did they create their Cal State University or UC or Common App account?” So there’s some check-ins that teachers will do during advisory and just put some notes in there like, “Oh, this student didn’t do this.” And so that is one layer.
Another data point is we use SCORE, and SCORE is a website that students can keep track of different colleges, where they’re planning to apply to. We use that as a timeline based on researching colleges and then essentially applying to them. And students who don’t utilize or interact with SCORE is also a red flag. So I’m checking to see, are students logging on? Are they adding schools to their list? Is it top-heavy meaning they’re applying to very, very selective schools and we need to open up that list? So I can use SCORE also as a data point to identify where students are in the process. And if I see things where, all right, the student hasn’t logged in a few weeks, it’s like, all right, that means I need to go check in with that student.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
I love that, that you use that as a proxy for, “Okay, these are the ones on my watch list, essentially.” What other tips and tricks do you have up your sleeve for supporting students like the non-frequent flyers? Because you work in these sneaky ways to help students, and I don’t know if they realize how much is going into on the back end.

Erik Castillo:
Like I’m just stalking. I’m just trying to find stuff. For example, like our juniors, I’m ramping up supporting them. And I’m constantly pulling the GPAs, and so which students are falling in the mid-range, which ones are falling at the lower end? And that often tells me, “All right, these students are going to need more support.” And oftentimes the students with the lower GPAs are first-gen, low-income students. Many of them are dealing with things at home. There’s a number of reasons. So I think identifying those early on, those are the students that I’m typically trying to reach out either in the hallway or pulling them out of class just to check in. But sometimes even just check-ins with teachers. But any type of data point that we can pull, it typically tells us something.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And when do you typically talk to parents in a student’s high school career? So they come in ninth grade, but I think your touch points are primarily you do some work ninth and 10th grade, but it’s primarily starting spring of junior year. Is it more when they’re considering what colleges to apply to if something surfaces as it’s going on and they say, “Oh, they mentioned something about parents,” or is it more when they’re considering their options for college?

Erik Castillo:
Well, High Tech High does provide grade level college advising information sessions. So one for ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, 12th grade. All are separate. And that’s our first introduction to parents in terms of what we do and what they should be focusing on. For the one-on-ones, I do really encourage parents, guardians, family members to attend those meetings.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
The one junior year?

Erik Castillo:
And senior year. So I definitely encourage it, even if it’s through Zoom. And so I understand not every parent or guardian’s available. And so in some cases, I can meet with them separately. But yeah, if there’s some families, like I met with a mom yesterday that I just felt like that we needed to have this conversation about what’s going to be best for this student in choosing where they’re going to school this fall. And so I just reached out to the parent. And so I think it’s a mix of different opportunities, but also understanding the needs of the student and then reaching out to the parent.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
I love that you invite them to the one-on-ones. Did you typically do this before the pandemic on Zoom?

Erik Castillo:
Well, during the pandemic was when I started really seeing an increase in parents joining the meeting.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Interesting.

Erik Castillo:
Because that’s the only option. They’re at home. And it really opened up just accessing Zoom now in person where parents are at home, we can just Zoom them in. But I think I’ve been more intentional since COVID to really encourage family members to attend. There are some situations where students don’t feel comfortable actually having a parent or guardian there, and that’s okay. I just tell them like, “Hey, why don’t we have our meeting?” And if the parent or guardian would like to meet separately, why don’t we schedule something? But I do give the student that choice, but I definitely encourage it.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Okay. So it’s up to the student to invite their parent, or…

Erik Castillo:
I invite parents and encourage them to attend. However, at the end of the day, if a student tells me, “Hey, I prefer that we just meet and that my parents weren’t there,” I respect that too.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Okay, yeah. I heard you from earlier when you were mentioning in your advising approach how you see them as the driver. I feel like you do this also with the one-on-ones, and it’s up to them if their parent comes. But what I’m seeing is that you really empower them and you help them have more agency in their education and their choices and their future. So that’s just something I appreciate from what I’ve heard.

Erik Castillo:
That student ownership I think is one of the key parts of this process. I think it not only empowers them, I think it also prepares them for when they leave high school. College is a lot of this independence, and how are we helping that transition piece and helping them either make these decisions or advocate for themselves if they don’t know something, come and ask for help? And so yeah, it’s something that I think is really a key part of this process.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
And you strike a good balance though between helping them realize some independence and have agency, but also guiding them through the process. I think that’s a hard balance to strike-

Erik Castillo:
A fine line.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Yeah, totally. I’m just going to end with one last question, and we’ve talked about this a little bit earlier, but in thinking about counselors at large high schools, what would you say are some of the most important things for them to remember, consider, keep top of mind in their advising? And I bring this up because some people listening might have humongous caseloads and might be needing to help with college advising but also master schedule, and then talking to middle schoolers, going to the high school. And they are just pulled in so many directions, and so time becomes so sacred. And it’s the greatest resource, is time is everything. And so what advice do you have to them? Because clearly you’re making an impact here. And I know we’re always up against time, so considering larger caseloads and the constraints that we all have, what are some recommendations you have or advice?

Erik Castillo:
I think some of the things that we’ve learned over the years is really starting the conversation early, even in ninth grade. I think it’s a misconception that freshmen, and I hear this often, ninth grade doesn’t matter. Which it’s really one of the most important years, whether that’s creating good habits or starting out with a strong GPA and obviously talking about the importance of how GPA affects the Cal Grant. And so I think that’s the first thing is just what is your school, what are the teachers, what are the administrators talking about primarily to the ninth and 10th graders?
I think second thing is just those connections. Again, it is really challenging to really have a lot of time with their students, primarily, especially counselors who are not always in the classroom, is find those organic ways to connect with students, whether it’s in the hallway, maybe it’s at their club or a sport that they play where you can just even check in with them even for a few minutes, I think can go a long way.
Last but not least, I think just what we’ve learned as being part of the CARPE network is just the importance of having a team. Our team has ranged between three people all the way to as many as I think seven or eight at one time. However, I shared this with our teachers, it’s like we’re all college advisors in some way or another. As long as a student can find that one or more teachers that they trust, I think it really opens up the possibilities for them and just having those connections. But yeah, who are the teachers, who are the admin on your campus that really believe in this work and are willing to set aside some time, even if it’s once a month or once a quarter, to make improvement? At the end of the day, it’s really to benefit our students and their families. So yeah, definitely challenging work, but that’s why we’re here.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Thank you, Erik. That was so beautiful. And I look forward to continuing to work with you in the coming years. And thank you for everything you’re doing.

Erik Castillo:
My pleasure. Thank you. I so appreciate it.

Sofia Tannenhaus:
Because these students are so lucky to have you.

Alec Patton:
High Tech High Unboxed is hosted and edited by me, Alec Patton. Our theme music is by Brother Herschel. Huge thanks to Sofia and Erik for this conversation. If you want to learn more about how high schools are helping kids get into and navigate college, you’ve come to the right place. We’ve got tons of awesome stuff about this. Check out the show notes for links. Thanks for listening.