Scarlett Baily:
I think the only way that we’re able to do it is because we don’t have any expectations other than chaos, and we just have a time limit to the chaos.

Alec Patton:
That’s some teaching advice right there.

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah.

Alec Patton:
This is High Tech High Unboxed. I’m Alec Patton, and that was the voice of artist Scarlett Baily. If you pick up the latest issue of Unboxed, our print journal, you’ll see a photo of that Scarlett and the students of High Tech Elementary Explorer painted in the Explorer playground. It’s bright, it’s covered in hybrid animals, it’s strange, it’s beautiful. You’ve got to see it. Check the show notes for a link.
My colleague, Nuvia Ruland, who’s also an artist, and I sat down with Scarlett to talk with her about her life, her art, and in particular the process of collaborating with 200 elementary school students, as well as with High Tech Elementary Explorer’s, director Melissa Hahn and art teacher, Tyra Lira.
And just one thing to let you know about this interview, the Liberty Station Arts Program generously provided us with a meeting room to record this interview, and it was perfect in every way except that all of Liberty Station, it’s on the flight path into San Diego Airport. So you’ll hear when the planes come in.
With that, here’s our interview with Scarlett Baily. You’ll hear me for just a second. And then Nuvia, ask the first question.
Should we go all the way back to the start?

Nuvia Ruland:
Well, all the way back for me would be: Scarlett, when your parents named you Scarlett, did they know that you would be such a beauty of an artist that has the richness of this color? I just think of Scarlett as blood-red and shiny and glimmering and nourishing.

Scarlett Baily:
What’s really funny, it wasn’t-

Nuvia Ruland:
What’s the story there?

Scarlett Baily:
Until I became a muralist, I didn’t even realize I was named after a color.

Nuvia Ruland:
This is perfect.

Scarlett Baily:
So that is hilarious. And then ironically, my whole life, my least favorite color was red. So I was like, “Oh man, is this a spiritual battle? Am I fighting myself? Is this a man versus self thing? Do I need to start embracing red?”
And my name was actually supposed to be Anastasia. My parents were super young when they had me, and they were not artists, but my dad always aspired to be a musician and really admired, creative people. And they were still in school. And I don’t even know where Anastasia came from. My aunt intervenes, she had just read Gone With the Wind. And of course, this is just legendary literature, and she’s like, “She’s going to be named Scarlett.” So it’s weird to be named after a Southern belle in Civil War times and then trying to be doing freedom fighting work as a muralist.

Nuvia Ruland:
Oh my gosh.

Scarlett Baily:
I feel like there’s a lot of contrast there. But I have embraced my name and I do own some red objects now.

Nuvia Ruland:
Nice. It makes me think about how often our name also guides us, but you’re mentioning the aspect of being at odds with that color. But also the reference of this character.

Alec Patton:
Mm-hmm.

Nuvia Ruland:
Right?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah.

Alec Patton:
What was wrong with Anastasia though?

Scarlett Baily:
I don’t know. I always thought that was a lovely name. I liked the Russian vibes, and I think my aunt got to my mom in a very weak, vulnerable moment. And so yeah, she won the battle. And I appreciate it.
The compliment that I get the most is, “Wow, your parents did great with your names.” And that was one thing I didn’t get to choose. And I think it’s a powerful name and a powerful persona. And a lot of people think that it’s just my artist name that I chose, which is cool. Because I always wanted a cool name, to be like Tiger or something.
So yeah, definitely the name blazed a trail for my artist career, and now I’m finally sitting comfortable with it.

Nuvia Ruland:
Nice. Well, you didn’t grow up in San Diego, so Scarlett was born… Where is she coming from? Where are your parents coming from? Give us a little bit of that background.

Scarlett Baily:
So I’m a border gal. I’m a Mexican American, I was born in El Paso, Texas. My grandparents have a wild story. My grandpa, his family’s from Austria, met my abuelita in Ciudad Juarez. They fell in love or something. They didn’t speak-

Alec Patton:
He was Austrian?

Scarlett Baily:
He was born in Chicago. From an Austrian mom.

Alec Patton:
Got it, okay.

Scarlett Baily:
And he was in the military. And so there’s a base in El Paso. And my grandpa was just doing his thing, living his life, and started walking my grandma to work every day. And then here I am.

Nuvia Ruland:
Nice.

Scarlett Baily:
My parents are both Mexican. From my mom’s side, from Chihuahua and my dad’s side from Michoacan. Technically I’m third generation. There’s a lot of indigenous blood on my abuelita’s side, on my maternal grandma’s side.
And the border dynamics are very interesting. There’s so much pride about living in the States. And when I eventually wanted to go back to Mexico to uncover these roots and fortify the bridge of my own identity, my grandparents really freaked out about that.

Alec Patton:
What did they think was going to happen?

Scarlett Baily:
My grandma had never gone to Mexico City. She grew up in Ciudad Juarez area, and there’s a lot of violence there in the nineties. And so she thought that I was going to an incredibly dangerous place.
Let’s see, I’d moved over 10 years ago. I was in New York at the time. She couldn’t believe that I was going to leave New York to go to a place that she was so happy to no longer be living. So there’s just a lot of anxiety. I think a lot of bad memories there, and just these parts of my own family history that are really unclear. A lot of stories in my own lineage that have been left untold.

Nuvia Ruland:
So to get it right, you were in New York?

Scarlett Baily:
Yep.

Nuvia Ruland:
Born in El Paso, then New York. But then you were thinking of going to Mexico?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. So, my crazy map. I was really following my parents around. I was just a kid. They left El Paso when I was four. We moved to San Diego. I went to grade school here. We had a small stint in Sacramento and then Tucson. And then eventually back in San Diego, graduated high school, went to UCSB.

Alec Patton:
Where’d you go to high school in San Diego?

Scarlett Baily:
Grossmont. Go Foothillers. Loved my high school experience.

Alec Patton:
What did you love about high school?

Scarlett Baily:
For me, school was the safest part of my day. I had a very complex situation at my home. There’s a lot of addiction problems and mental health issues, so I was always trying to figure out how I could spend less time at home, and school was the perfect outlet.
So once I was in high school, there’s opportunity to join clubs and after-school programs. And I ran track and field and we had training in the morning and at night. And I joined student government and I was obligated to be at school dances and football games. And so school saved me for a way, and provided this very comforting place where I could be with my peers and expressed myself and feel protected a little bit.

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah. Were you starting your art in high school?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah.

Nuvia Ruland:
Or in grade school?

Scarlett Baily:
I think it’s really cool that I’ve had the opportunity to work with schools now because I reflect on my own education, and there was nothing like this going on. Art programs were getting shut down, art classrooms were empty. So I wasn’t taking art classes at all, and got into art…
I was the commissioner of publicity in high school, so my job was to paint signs, and that was when I started painting and doing things in large format. And I would say my first mural was probably at Grossmont High School for homecoming in 2003. We made these huge panels and transformed the entire outside of the gym. And that was my first big project.
And I learned project management, I was the leader of the team. I learned how to paint in huge scale, I learned how to use a lift. It was a blast.

Alec Patton:
Did that light something for you, do you think? Or was that just a thing that, looking back on it…

Scarlett Baily:
I had forgotten this memory of homecoming until I moved back to San Diego. So I had my 20-year hiatus, New York, Mexico City, and back to San Diego. And I ran into people from high school and they were like, “Of course you’re a muralist. You had this project for homecoming.”
And I hadn’t connected the dots, but I know subconsciously, doing that project, I had such a sense of purpose and pride. And I was so excited to bring this wonder and awe to the campus. And I think that sat with me, even though it was not in the front of my motivation to make art all the time. But it certainly was a turning point in my art career.
I think there were two pivotal moments that happened in school. There’s that, senior year of high school. And then I had a fifth grade teacher, Mr. Thompson, wherever you are, thank you. I had a drawing that he loved. He showed it to the class and he asked me if he could keep it as an example for future classrooms.
And I had been doodling and drawing since I could hold a crayon. And I was just that weird kid that was always totally content as long as I had a piece of paper and something to draw with. I was super quiet as a kid. And even though I was drawing all the time, my parents had never really, I don’t have memories of them hanging my stuff up. It was like, “Oh, praise be. She’s entertained. This is great.”
And that was my first memory of feeling like, oh, whoa, I did something that’s cool and special. I feel seen and I feel like I might have something unique. Maybe I should keep working at this. I do really enjoy drawing, and maybe it’s bringing joy to other people.

Alec Patton:
Do you remember what it was a picture of?

Scarlett Baily:
A witch.

Alec Patton:
Strong. Strong. As long as we’re talking about symbolism here.

Scarlett Baily:
And that’s when I joined the coven. No.
Yeah, we had this incredible Halloween project, and I was always in love with Halloween. Costumes and… Transformation, I think, is something that I am always drawn to. And she was just a really radical witch, very glamorous, very black pointed hat. But she had contours and volume, and the coloring job was really exquisite.

Nuvia Ruland:
Wow. I could see this witch.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah, I’ll have to bring her back in some new stuff.

Nuvia Ruland:
Oh my gosh. That’s definitely a series right there.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. Which I have to say, I don’t know if I’m putting the cart before the horse. Doing the collaborations with High Tech Elementary made me think so much about this moment for myself as an artist.
Going into these classrooms and seeing the students create, I couldn’t help but to reflect on my old drawings. And I was remembering this witch. And moving back to San Diego, my mom handed me a bin of my old drawings. And I’m going through them, I’m like, “Oh, wow, I need to go back here. What will happen if as an adult, I start drawing like this again?”
And the mural at Explorer gave me the opportunity because the kids actually contributed to the design. So on the mural, you see just these huge scribbles that are done larger than life, but they’re actually taken from a small drawing from one of the students’ designs.

Nuvia Ruland:
Was there a moment where you embodied Mr. Thompson?

Scarlett Baily:
Oh my gosh, Mr. Thompson energy. Definitely, I brought him with me into the classroom.
It was so intimidating to think about how to integrate 200 students into one collective mural. We had good real estate, good size. But I was so careful to avoid qualifying any of the art that the students were making. I think, especially because I do know if I saw that witch drawing today, it’s probably so ugly.

Nuvia Ruland:
And not.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. So I think my purpose in there was to make sure that everyone felt safe being creative. Because I really do feel like creativity is power and creativity is autonomy. And that feeling is something that I get when I’m making, and I wanted to see if there’s some way that I could get the kids on that channel too.
So I thought of Mr. Thompson, how great he was at praising. And I really made sure to have one-on-ones with each kid and really observe and acknowledge an excellent color choice, or great line quality, or really inventive approach. That was really fun. That was a very full circle moment for sure.

Alec Patton:
Okay. I want to get into how the Explorer Project came about, because there’s been a lot of talk about that space. People were aware that like, “Oh, wouldn’t it be great to have a mural there?”
So I’m curious, from your perspective, how that actually happened.

Scarlett Baily:
Wow. So there was a yearning for a while.

Nuvia Ruland:
Yes. Somebody had put it in the universe for a long time. So that’s why I’m like, for you to come back when you came back and who you talked to, how did you come into that space and create this piece? Because I think it had been put into the universe by many, many people.

Scarlett Baily:
Cool, guys. I feel so lucky.
Well, a parent… Timothy Barrett, what up? He saw my mural at Liberty Station, thought it was rad. My mural at Liberty Station talks a lot about Indigenous maritime culture, a celebration of native flora and fauna. And he reached out to me-

Alec Patton:
Celebration of seagulls too.

Scarlett Baily:
And a celebration of seagulls, that’s right. Team seagull. Thank you.

Alec Patton:
No problem.

Scarlett Baily:
Thank you. Appreciate it.
He wrote me on Instagram and said, “Hey, my daughter goes to High Tech Explorer Elementary. Would you ever paint at elementary school?” I said, “Heck yes.” And the next week we’re meeting with Melissa and Tyra.

Alec Patton:
Okay, so you got a blank wall?

Scarlett Baily:
I got a blank wall.

Alec Patton:
You got how many kids involved in this?

Scarlett Baily:
200? So it was, yeah, every single student.

Alec Patton:
Every kid?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah.

Alec Patton:
You got 200 kids. Where was the budget coming from?

Scarlett Baily:
That is a good question. I think there was a grant somewhere that was about to expire.

Alec Patton:
Got it.

Scarlett Baily:
And so we also were pressed for time to get this done. And we had a lot of help from the school in terms of preparing the wall, which also could be costly. Maintenance was able to help us with power washing and priming.
And in terms of the budget, we were able to create something out there. With my projects, I’m always like, “Let’s just make this happen. Let’s look at the numbers and figure out what we could do.”

Alec Patton:
And did you have a brief at that point?

Scarlett Baily:
I didn’t have anything. Which is always so intimidating, to look at literally a blank canvas that’s 60 by 16 feet.
And at the time, I was enrolled at the Kumeyaay Community College and was taking classes with Dr. Stan. What up, Dr. Stan?

Alec Patton:
Yeah. What’s up Dr. Stanley?

Scarlett Baily:
Your homey too.
And I was learning about traditional ecological knowledge and the importance of rescuing Kumeyaay and just mother languages around the world. A mother language dies every 14 days.

Alec Patton:
It’s horrifying.

Scarlett Baily:
It’s crazy. And I think too, I reflected on my own story of forgetting. My abuelita would speak to me in Spanish, and by the time I got to school, I could not understand any Spanish. And I even have this haunting memory of me telling my grandma, “Abuela, you have to speak English to me. We speak English now.” Oh God, it breaks my heart.
And now I have mended that wound. I learned Spanish. I talk with my abuela in Spanish. It’s so wonderful and healing. But I was thinking about how that language was taken away and then retaught to me. And then even my own indigenous language, Nahuatl, being totally erased and having to relearn that. And so hearing the Kumeyaay story in San Diego and working with these elders, Stan planted this sense of urgency in all of us that it’s all of our responsibility to save this language. And to be bold and find ways where we could encounter this language in unexpected places.
And in tandem with that, I had this blank wall. And it was just like, “This is the opportunity. Let’s go.” So I got the blessing from Dr. Stan. I was nervous. I’m not Kumeyaay, and I wanted to really be careful about what is the best way to represent this language coming from the outside. So I was very happy that I got the green light.
And we decided, collaborating with Tyra, to do alebrijes, a nod to Mexican folklore. To do alebrijes inspired by native animals whose translation we know in Kumeyaay. So this mural is really cool because this generation of students was involved in the painting and design, but I wanted to do something that led itself to learning opportunity in the future.

Nuvia Ruland:
Oh, wow. That part is something that I gravitated to. And I saw the hauka and Dr. Rodriguez telling us how beautiful that greeting is to say to one another, “I see the light in you. I notice that light in you.”
And I wonder if the story you’ve been saying about even yourself of that teacher seeing that light in you. Or one another, seeing that light in each other. So I feel like that lesson or that vibe is still being transferred through that mural.

Alec Patton:
Can you say more about what that is? “I see the light in you.”

Nuvia Ruland:
I’m probably going to butcher it. So I’m so sorry, Dr. Stanley.

Scarlett Baily:
Dr. Stan.

Nuvia Ruland:
I tried to be a good student, I promise.
But it is a full beautiful story of the creation of humans here in Kumeyaay land. There was some trickery, some…

Scarlett Baily:
Coyotes involved.

Nuvia Ruland:
Coyotes involved and-

Scarlett Baily:
Seagulls involved.

Nuvia Ruland:
But one of the aspects was trying to dim the sun? Or trying to… That’s the part I’m forgetting right now. But at some point it comes out that the sun is actually within us. And the mark that we have from that happening is on our nail bed. We have that little half circle that you could see at the top of your nail bed. And that is how that mark of the sun was burnt into us.
And so when we say “hauka,” we’re saying, “I see the light in you and I see that radiating from you.” And it’s like a greeting. I totally butchered that. That is a super abridged version.

Scarlett Baily:
The story takes many days to tell. So I think that was a really great synopsis.

Nuvia Ruland:
I would actually, if anybody wants to learn more, go to the Barona Cultural Center.

Scarlett Baily:
Yes.

Nuvia Ruland:
They actually have a beautiful interactive space where you could sit there. And from what I also understand, it is one of these stories that was told over days and campfires. But at the Barona, they have a space that is dark and it has a “campfire.” And it has visuals all around you, but things move and shake and smell like smoke.
And so it really-

Scarlett Baily:
So dope.

Nuvia Ruland:
… brings the story to life. So I highly recommend for any person to go check that out, because it is just one of those hidden gems in our community to learn about indigenous culture.

Alec Patton:
Yeah. Shut out Barona Culture Center. The place is awesome.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah.

Nuvia Ruland:
And you could also get seeds there of native plants.

Scarlett Baily:
Oh, really?

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah. They have this little library that you could get seeds of white sage or-

Scarlett Baily:
So random-

Nuvia Ruland:
… golden rod or buckwheat. Any native plant in our region. It is open for anybody to put that into their gardens.

Alec Patton:
On the subject of definitions, alebrije?

Scarlett Baily:
Yes.

Alec Patton:
Let’s give a… For those of us who aren’t exactly sure, maybe semi-sure.

Scarlett Baily:
Oh, man. I’m going to get fact-checked by all the Chicanos out there too.
But my concept of alebrije is it’s rather contemporary and it’s a fantastic animal that is made from components of various other animals painted in colors that are not true to life. So technicolor, neon, weird patterns.
They originated, I think the maestro is in Oaxaca, Mexico. And in real life, you could find these carved wooden figurines in sizes from miniature, that you could have in a coin purse, to larger-than-life for parades in Mexico.

Alec Patton:
Awesome.

Nuvia Ruland:
So I know that one of the reasons that I really wanted to talk to you today was hopefully in doing a podcast, inspire other folks to make that call to that artist in order to find out, are you available to come?
So if art has been taken out, I think it’s all of our responsibility to bring art back in. And how do we do that? And it has happened more often to you. So do you want to talk a little bit about the other murals [inaudible 00:23:57]

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah, sure. So it really is the perfect… I can’t believe that this hasn’t been happening forever because artists are always looking for blank walls, schools are full of blank walls. We are the perfect marriage.
Artists have their misconceptions about how schools are, schools feel intimidated by artists. And I’m so happy to finally break the ice on that because not only was this such a meaningful experience, but as a professional artist, this was one of my most fun projects. It was incredible to work with kids. It was so fulfilling every day. So for artists out there who are contemplating where the next mural is? Schools, it was the jam.
So I now have three murals in San Diego at public schools.

Nuvia Ruland:
Woo, woo!

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah! And actually my first one, my good friend Jackie Ho, also an educator, she got me into her school, Foster Elementary in Allied Gardens. There’s a tunnel that was abandoned on campus, and they wanted to transform that into a play learning space. And that mural, actually, in retrospect is the prototype for my Liberty Station mural, because we did the walls, the ceiling, and a narrative that covers the ocean to the sky, to the land. The kids helped paint that too.
So, Foster Elementary, High Tech Elementary and Washington Elementary. Each school was very exciting because I got to see different styles of an approach from staff, faculty, the overall culture.
At Washington Elementary, we had the kids design the mural. And I did a collage from their drawings to put that together, and then they painted it. And that was amazing. I think as a muralist, it’s so important for me that wherever this mural is going to live, the people feel some sort of connection, some sort of emotional connection.
And I have to take myself out of my body and be a fly on a wall a little bit to really vibe with the wall, feel what it needs, sense what’s missing in the area. And each elementary school has provided a really interesting approach to my own work.

Alec Patton:
I always think, because having been a teacher, I always think in terms of the logistics. And I’m like, 200 kids is a lot of kids.

Scarlett Baily:
Yes.

Alec Patton:
And you want to get up there and you want to honor what these kids are doing, and you want them to be involved with it. But if you put 200 alebrijes up on a mural, it’s not going to necessarily look, it’s going to look like Where’s Waldo?
So there you are, you’ve got a blank wall. You’re starting to think about ideas here, you’ve got this Kumeyaay concept here. And then the kids come into the mix, which is always where things get interesting.
So how often were you coming in? Who were you working with? When were you seeing the kids?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. So, definitely feasibility is always the number one filter on all of my projects. And I knew that whatever this was, we were going to have to do big elements and big color fields so that all of the kids would be able to paint. So the design was already dictated in that sense.

Alec Patton:
So you’re literally meaning, we need to have a big block of purple so a bunch of kids can paint purple?

Scarlett Baily:
Exactly. And we had some funny moments in our community paint day where purple suddenly turned blue or pink, and you just roll with that.

Alec Patton:
I’m getting ahead of myself, but your murals look so crisp. You know what I mean?

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah.

Alec Patton:
They just look so crisp. And then you’re like, “Oh yeah, a bunch of people did this. And sometimes they’re trying to be a different color.” I can’t get it in my head. So what do you do? How do you make them look so sharp?

Nuvia Ruland:
And I think the other part, that you describe yourself as a type A person. So how do you manage that when somebody starts to create purple into blue and fuchsia?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah, you could see some remnants at High Tech and definitely at Washington. I was like, “That looks pretty cool. I appreciate that direction better than my original design. I’m going to keep that.”
So it’s for me, an incredible practice as an artist to step out of my comfort zone and let go of control. But in order to make this happen in a way that integrates everyone, you need to visualize what that painting day is going to be like and what sort of designs are going to be fun for everyone to paint. And you won’t need to be hovering over the students and micromanaging. You literally could hand a cup of a color and be like, “All right, you got to fill this whole area. This is your mission. This needs to be pink.”
And the kids love it. I was always so nervous about, this could turn into a paint war. This could be total chaos. But the kids have this sense of like, “Oh, we are on a mission. We are going to collectively do this.” And so there’s this unexpected collaboration and order during these paint days. And I get to just sit back and orchestrate and refill paint. And just guide a little bit.

Nuvia Ruland:
You’re also a lot of a cheerleader when you’re out there. Definitely. I saw that.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah, this is true. I do like to cheer the kids on. And the teachers.

Alec Patton:
Do you do the line work first?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah, I’ll start, I’ll do the line work. And I’ll almost like a paint-by-numbers indicate what colors are going to go where. And there is a retouch day after we have all hands on deck. And yeah, I think to-

Alec Patton:
I think there’d have to be.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. And once I get those black lines in, it covers up a lot of craziness. So I’m happy to hear that they look crisp. If you spend too much time, you’ll see some gnarly stuff.
And then in terms of the design, getting 200 kids involved. I really got to celebrate Melissa and Tyra on that front because I didn’t know how we were going to do it. And they were able to just really take a chance on me, really trust their students, and see how this experiment would go.
So I gave a lesson of the animals that I would like to work with. These are again the ones that we have the translations for. And I said, “All right, we have crabs, we have seaweed, we have sea slugs. We’re going to-”

Nuvia Ruland:
Deer.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah, deer. “We are going to look at all these animals, all these plants. Imagine what head we want for this animal. You have three minutes, design a head. All right, time’s up, three minutes, let’s design a body. Three minutes, let’s put a tail or feet on this.”
And so together we were making these Frankenstein animals. And so from all these 200 drawings, I just took elements from their drawings. And also, the mural was just an extension of the exercise that we did in the art and science classes.

Alec Patton:
And so the kids had a limitation of their own about these animals with Kumeyaay names that you wanted to incorporate.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. And it was actually really cool because as they were drawing their animals, they started to put the Kumeyaay name next to… The head is [Kumeyaay 00:31:53]. And it was very unexpected because we had a really short amount of time to do this. So I didn’t know if the language component was going to land in these art classes. And it did.

Nuvia Ruland:
I’m hearing a couple things. One, a director that is completely bought in. It sounds like Melissa was just removing obstacles constantly-

Scarlett Baily:
Yes.

Nuvia Ruland:
… from budget, to getting people there.
And then there’s these teachers that are also trusting. What are also some other qualities that these adults had that provide this liberty for students to tackle a project?

Scarlett Baily:
No one was very worried about aesthetically the outcome. I never really had to have a design approved. I had to have a concept approved and a how we were going to make this happen. But because it was going to be inspired by activities done in class, we were able to get the green light to move forward without that.
And I think everyone had so much faith in just the final product being a mural that there was no more roadblocks between that and that. There was no checkpoints we had to do. It was like, “All right, do your thing. We have the student body, we have the arts, we have the sciences, we have the wall, we have the approval, we got the money, let’s go.”
I learned so much by working with High Tech about what student-centered actually looks like. And as an artist, I realized that’s so liberating. I got to leave the hard work, the hard concepting work, with the kids. And the design work to the kids. And I essentially was working for them.
And once I was able to get over that hump of like, All right, you don’t have total control here, how fun. Now you get to just have fun. See what the kids could do. This is a dream come true. You get to play and explore and let somebody else steer the ship for a little bit. And it might end up going somewhere way more interesting than you had planned.

Nuvia Ruland:
That also made me think about in letting students be them, and really being student-centered. Oftentimes we also talk about the connection that we have with community members coming in, and for it to feel reciprocal. So it sounds like you provided the space for young kids. And also the directors provided, and all the other adults provided, this liberating space for children.
Do you mind going into maybe what you feel like you have taken or what you have learned, or how it’s impacting what your next-

Scarlett Baily:
Oh, man.

Nuvia Ruland:
… murals or art projects. How has it changed Scarlett as an artist?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. I honestly did not realize how psychedelic and time travel-y this was going to be. Working with the kids was one thing, but also painting to the soundtrack of a playground, that was wild. I was suddenly in fourth grade playing four square, gossiping with my friends, and it was like I was in two dimensions at once. I was present-day professional artist Scarlett, painting, but also a kid again.
And it was an incredible opportunity for me to go back and rescue this kid that has been very scared and hurt and timid and be like, “Hey, look, we’re safe. We’re safe here. And you’re doing what you’re passionate about and you’re doing it for all these kids here. And they are going to feel like the joy and the empowerment of doing something that was your dream. This is the manifestation of your dream when you were that age.”

Nuvia Ruland:
Oh, wow.

Scarlett Baily:
Whoa.

Nuvia Ruland:
Oh my gosh.

Scarlett Baily:
So hard not to lose my…

Nuvia Ruland:
I know. We got tissues, don’t worry.

Scarlett Baily:
Had I known when Timothy Barrett offered this wall, the shifts that were going to happen in me psychologically, I don’t know if I would’ve been prepared, but I’m so happy that I went for it.
And I think too, as an artist now… I’m really excited. I’ve had an incredibly busy year that I’m so grateful for, and I’ve been getting projects that have been so meaningful for me, that have cracked open my heart. And I now feel ready to… I want to take that kid into my studio now. The professional artist went to the school and now I’m like, “All right.”

Nuvia Ruland:
Or more like, your whole self can now step into the-

Scarlett Baily:
They can too live together. Yes, yes.
So I’m curious now about what does my art look like now and what are the things that I want? And I feel like working in this environment, I realized a lot of healing that I can do. And I realized that there’s a power in art that I wasn’t even acknowledging.
And for a long time, my art was a place that I would go to to tell my secrets. And over time it’s gotten more public. And now I’m ready to bring it back in and be like, all right, what secrets do we want to share now? What are those urges that you have as an artist to share? Are you ready to get vulnerable now on a public scale?

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah. When you heard students talk about the work, talk a little bit about that. What was that experience like? Because our young people at Explorer love to talk and say the story about this mural. And you’ve gotten a chance to listen to them, so.

Scarlett Baily:
Another great thing about putting the students there and letting them run the show is they save you from public speaking sometimes. I remember this day. I was so nervous, we were talking with grad students and I’m like, “Oh man, I don’t know. I don’t have the words to explain.” And when the kids grabbed the mic, I was like, “That’s it. That’s everything.”
I was so happy to hear that they truly felt ownership of this mural. And that they had memories of painting it that this was like… I remember when we were painting, kids were saying, “This is the best day ever!” And I was like, “Yes!” Oh, I get so grumpy about showing up to work sometimes, but that is the attitude.
So hearing their reflection on the experience was a confirmation that all those chances that we took, all of that trust that Melissa and Tyra had in myself and their students actually worked. We actually were able to make something that positively impacted the kids and created a sense of place where they go for education.

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah.

Alec Patton:
All right. We got to say a little more about what painting day actually looks like.

Scarlett Baily:
Okay. Yeah.

Alec Patton:
So first of all, is it a weekday or is it a Saturday or is it a Sunday?

Scarlett Baily:
This is a school day.

Alec Patton:
School day.

Scarlett Baily:
So we sent out waivers to the kids that we’re working with industrial paints. So we had permission slips from all the parents. And this is paint that isn’t going to wash off, so show up in your painting clothes, your gardening clothes, or your cool clothes that you want to get paint on. And this was one day. The entire school came.
I think we had sections of 15 minutes. Which actually it sounds short, but it’s the perfect amount of time. And even shorter, I would say 10 to 15 minute blocks of kids coming together to paint is ideal. And we would just cycle through, like, “All right. You’re team pink, you’re team orange.” I would hand them paint brushes, set a timer and see as far as they could get. And then the next class is rolling.

Alec Patton:
So it was like what, 20 kids at a time, roughly?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah.

Alec Patton:
Wow.

Nuvia Ruland:
I couldn’t believe it when I was there. I’m tall, so I had three kids around me that were hitting up the bottom parts, where I was hitting up a little bit of the taller parts.

Scarlett Baily:
This is why it’s good for all ages.

Nuvia Ruland:
Yes. And I think that part of hearing the students just talk about, “Oh, well this is the space that I got. And I’m going to be the best green painter that there is here.”
And it does get to the end of those 15 minutes and it’s like, “Oh, oops. There’s now green across my t-shirt.” There’s that part too, which is once it happens, it’s like, “Oh, now you have to go back to class. All right, let me help you with that.”

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. And I think the only way that we’re able to do it is because we don’t have any expectations other than chaos. And we just have a time limit to the chaos.

Alec Patton:
That’s some teaching advice right there.

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. And then we move on. So I know that it’s going to get hectic, I know there’s going to be paint everywhere. So the mission of that day is just to make sure that each kid has a paint brush and applies some paint onto that wall.

Nuvia Ruland:
I was surprised too, that they had the responsibility of cleaning those paint brushes-

Scarlett Baily:
They did.

Nuvia Ruland:
… for the next group.

Scarlett Baily:
They did. So it wasn’t like 200 paint brushes that were there. It was a limited amount of materials.
We had water buckets, so they would rinse it out and shake it off, and then they’re good to go for the next one.

Nuvia Ruland:
And the floor did have canvas, things were covered up and stuff. But the students stayed to those areas.

Scarlett Baily:
They did. And they actually didn’t mind getting painted on. Some students chose to paint on their shoes, which I thought was cute. So you have to be prepared for that. The paint is going to express itself everywhere.
And for me, it actually shockingly helps out a lot. We cover a lot of ground on these days, and when we’re working with a 1,000-square-foot mural, all these little brushstrokes help us get closer to the final product. So we’re all part of this machine working towards the same goal.

Nuvia Ruland:
If this is to be replicated, we have a little bit of the type of adults, what is the final touch? And then how do we celebrate this work? What was the celebration like? At either Explorer or at any of the other murals?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. Oh, I thought it was so sweet because normally I finish these projects and then I’m onto the next, and Melissa took such care into acknowledging the completion of this very ambitious project, acknowledging the involvement of all the students.
And we had a special assembly in the morning in front of the mural. I got to speak, students got to speak. And we had parents there to hear a little bit more about the background of the mural and the meaning and the intention and the language revitalization. And that was awesome. It was a 20-minute ceremony, but it felt so sweet to really close it in a meaningful way, and give the mural its blessing and bring all of the community into it. So I really appreciated that.

Nuvia Ruland:
Touch-ups?

Scarlett Baily:
Touch-ups, yeah. We are having to do a little bit of maintenance. So I think when murals are in the wild, you do need to be prepared for, especially if you’re in San Diego, there’s heat waves, there’s humidity. This wall is facing the sun, so it gets a lot of that UV. So yeah, keep it in the budget for little touch-ups, maybe a seasonal paint chip falling off.
We did varnish this mural with a super industrial varnish, and I’m thinking for the next mural, I might not varnish it. I think it’s better for the house paint that we used to just breathe and let the water flow in and out of it.

Nuvia Ruland:
Wow.

Alec Patton:
Okay.

Nuvia Ruland:
Some learning moments there.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. For the technical data.

Nuvia Ruland:
What is the next art project you’re working on?

Scarlett Baily:
Oh, man. I am going to cocoon in my studio and make secret stuff until the spring.

Nuvia Ruland:
And you finished the piece in Chula Vista?

Scarlett Baily:
I did, yes. I just finished one on Third Avenue, and it’s super cute. It is full of native plants and animals, and I feel very honored to be part of the Chula Vista muralist roster too.

Nuvia Ruland:
Did a little bit of Explorer go into that mural?

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. My lead assistant actually just graduated from High Tech Explorer. She was my intern. We collaborated on her intern project at the end of her senior year, and I ended up hiring her now that she’s graduated to work with me full-time on that.

Alec Patton:
Wait, so which school did she graduate from?

Scarlett Baily:
From High Tech High over here. Okay, got it.

Nuvia Ruland:
But she was interning at High Tech Explorer, which by the way, that is also a great story because-

Scarlett Baily:
It was.

Nuvia Ruland:
How she connected with you in order to be an intern.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. Hey, Brisa. What’s up?
Brisa had seen me painting in Liberty Station, loved what I was doing. She shared her story that she wants to be an artist. I told her I’m always looking for assistants. We were in touch. She saw me painting on her campus, introduced herself again, and then I invited her to my next mural at Washington. She was great. I even left her a section to design a hundred percent on her own. She slayed.
And she understood the assignment; was so comfortable to be working with the lift, with the industrial paints, with the timeline. I was so impressed by that willingness and just jumping into unknown and really-

Nuvia Ruland:
That’s so awesome.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. And really doing great. And so she was incredible to have on the team for this last mural in Chula Vista.

Nuvia Ruland:
Yeah. So the legacy of High Tech High in your life continues from your sister to now mentoring students. And I feel like you’re really encompassing everything that we are.
The beauty of being that maestra and bringing joy and validation and seeing students, but then also lifting up students and centering them and giving them voice and space in order for them to really fully express their whole selves. So that’s why I love you.

Scarlett Baily:
Oh, that is so beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Alec Patton:
Thank you so much.

Scarlett Baily:
Yes.

Nuvia Ruland:
All right, well… Woo!

Alec Patton:
All right. That’s a wrap.

Scarlett Baily:
Yeah. Woo! Woo!

Alec Patton:
High Tech High Unboxed is hosted and edited by me, Alec Patton. Our theme music is by Brother Hershel.
Huge thanks to Nuvia Ruland and Scarlett Baily for this conversation. We’ve got links to Scarlett’s art in the show notes, including photos of the mural at High Tech Elementary Explorer, and the Liberty Station mural. We’ve also got a link to Kumeyaay College so you can find out more about their programs.
Thanks for listening.